sorry to hear about your friends. where in Fairfax is the church located?

at first everything seemed alright and they were both turning their lives around.

a few days passed and they began changing.

I was actually in a relationship with one which ended because she became so narrow minded on these views. Im afraid I will lose two people that are very close to me and I do not know what I should do.

any thoughts would be appreciated

Thank you very much for your comment, and for your kind complements. I very much appreciate them, and I am very glad you have found the information here helpful.

Yes, it is certainly very difficult to speak with WMSCOG members, because as you have reiterated, they mostly ignore your points and do seem to have already queued up their next line. Their arguments are also circular or incoherent, and adeptly employ ad hominems and straw men.

I would also recommend checking out http://www.examiningthewmscog.com. That site has done a much better job at debunking this fringe organization than I have time to do here on my blog. They also have many more conclusive refutations of their beliefs.

God bless and thank you again,

My interest in these guys peaked recently when one of my former students told me that he was very excited about what God was doing in his life and wanted to come over and talk. What he actually wanted was to come into my home and do a “study” with my mother and I (both of us are long-time believers with bible degrees) and bring along one of his converts. I was, to say the least, devastated at what began to come out of his mouth. At first I thought he was a 7th day guy because he immediately started in on the Sabbath stuff. My mother and I cut him off gently and actually pointed out some of the same things you pointed out- about Christians worshiping on Sunday… which of course, he didn’t know

But the two things I really have to comment on that you have just nailed… and I think what devastates me the most, is one- the blind arrogance, and two- the circular talk. Being a teacher, nothing aggravates me more than a flawed argument. Then you add fuel to the fire with arrogance, and it’s over for me- that’s my signal to not, as scripture says, argue with a fool in his folly. I have just been blind-sided by these two elements in another conversation with this young man recently; I was so angry/ devastated at his use of spiritual jargon (which was of course completely misused), his quick illogical dismissal of anything legitimate I would say to him (he seemed so preoccupied with what he was going to say next that he didn’t even READ properly, even simple feelings I was relating to him!), and lastly his utter blindness as per his arrogance. When I addressed this superiority, even his denial OF it was arrogant!
Then to read exactly these things here on your website… these elements of conversation, I was just so relieved in one sense that this discourse with a wmscog member has happened to someone else and that every experience with these guys tends to be the same (This is how they indoctrinate them to do speak).

Also, I am normally very good at finding the fallacies in flawed arguments, but when you can’t use scripture (in one sense) because more is thrown back at you so quickly and inaccurately and arrogantly, you quickly become so overloaded it’s hard to respond, just as you said. You were dead on in terms of their tactic, their tone, their approach, and the fact that they never EVER come right out and tell you what they ACTUALLY believe. The only reason I found out what this kid was a part of was because, in his arrogant zeal, he “slipped” and broke protocol to say that, “It was a shame no one recognized Christ when he came back the second time in 1918,” which is I guess when their Christ was born. So, I started googling, found out who the wmscog was, and it’s been a horrific trek for me through their “doctrine” ever since.

Thanks again so much for so succinctly and accurately discussing the apologetics necessary to help these poor deceived people. I simply had no idea where to start, and your site as been a huge answer to prayer! God bless you in your ministry!

Well, there are degrees of similarity not necessarily equivalent to being identical. For example, when we say someone is “just like their mother”, we do not mean that they are an identical copy, but rather they display similar characteristics. When this article says “the same” it is not meant as “identical” but rather “similar”. I hope this helps to clear things up.

Your best bet is to review the information on this site: http://www.examiningthewmscog.com/

I will also follow up with you via e-mail.

I really would appreciate some help so I can free my girlfriend from their brainwashing lies.

I’m sorry to hear about this. Let me recommend taking a look at this site, which has a lot more info than mine: http://www.examiningthewmscog.com/

I’ll contact you via e-mail to follow up for further help.

I am Roman Catholic.